100% disagree with the lack of talent sentiment

Tuco Salamanca

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Not doubting you, but how is this possible from a coach like Frost? I mean he's 1) 2017 COY and 2) he is given free reign to run his program however he sees fit. Why would Frost think he would have to do anything different than what he wants to do?
Easy. There are some very influential people in his ear. People that he respects.
 
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Pennsyhusker

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Easy. There are some very influential people in his ear. People that he respects.
That is an interesting little nugget of information Tuco. For some reason that has not crossed my mind. But it is entirely possible that he has consulted with certain people he respects and gotten their input. That would have to influence his thinking I would guess.
 

Tuco Salamanca

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Are you saying that these are the numbers currently on the roster? So 'Bama has been able to average keeping nearly 14 4-star players, or better, from each of the last 5 classes on the roster? That truly is impressive. They have multiple 4-star or better players sitting the bench.

If I were Frost and company, I would be using numbers like these of all the top schools to our advantage. I would suspect they already are. "Son, Alabama/Ohio State, Georgia/etc.. is 3-deep at every position on the field with 4-star talent. Come to Nebraska, where you have the potential to see the field much earlier, and increase your chances of getting to the pros. Not to mention we'll make sure you'll get a good education."
And Saban can counter with, we have had true freshman come in to our program and start from the jump.

He just sat a QB that led the team to back to back championship games.

So the come to Nebraska and be first string on a .500 team vs go to Alabama and be first string on a team in the CFP.
 

Tuco Salamanca

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That is an interesting little nugget of information Tuco. For some reason that has not crossed my mind. But it is entirely possible that he has consulted with certain people he respects and gotten their input. That would have to influence his thinking I would guess.
I don't know if I would call it information, its just my opinion.
 
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Pennsyhusker

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Good discussion. Idk about Milton and starting game 1 . It's hard to know exactly how that played out hindsight.

As far as the OL goes maybe it's as simple as him having more confident in their run blocking over their pass blocking. I mean if we are being honest I don't think anyone is or would be thrilled with Farniok pass blocking a top notch DE/OLB. I honestly think they may be trying to protect the OL by running the ball. If you can establish a run you can kinda keep a team from pinning their ears back. So again it's all speculation but maybe they aren't as confident in the pass game and wanna pass when they WANNA run and not when they have to. Just another opinion of course.

As far as someone in his ear about running the ball I'm assuming u mean TO. Otherwise I don't believe Frost would give "run the damn ball guy" a second thought. If you know Frost by now you gotta know he isn't gonna change how he runs his offense because of what a few loud fans think.

If you said it was TO ...then I'd listen but I honestly think TO trust Scott knows what's he's doing enough to tell him what he should be doing but again I could be wrong.

Like I said though or like YOU said it'll be interesting to see the rest of the year.


Holla
It could also be a very simple explanation. We have two very young quarterbacks who have never started before. Do you really want to have your game plan be slinging it all over the field? Any coach will tell you that with a new, young QB you call a more conservative game.
 

Hoosker Du

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And Saban can counter with, we have had true freshman come in to our program and start from the jump.

He just sat a QB that led the team to back to back championship games.

So the come to Nebraska and be first string on a .500 team vs go to Alabama and be first string on a team in the CFP.
I would bet Frost wouldn't be saying .500 team...after going undefeated at UCF. The fact remains that there are only 22 starters, plus a few ST personnel. That's less than 1/3 of just their 4 and 5-star players, let alone their entire roster.

I'm sure coaching staffs have been through their recruiting philosophies backwards and forwards well before I came along suggesting a different approach, which probably isn't different at all, so my point is fairly moot to begin with. The vast majority of kids go to school within 300 miles of their home anyway. We just have to be creative with JUCOs and grad-transfers I guess.
 
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Pennsyhusker

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And Saban can counter with, we have had true freshman come in to our program and start from the jump.

He just sat a QB that led the team to back to back championship games.

So the come to Nebraska and be first string on a .500 team vs go to Alabama and be first string on a team in the CFP.
Exactly. The true blue chip guys gravitate to the winning programs. This idea that we can just sell a kid on early playing time is way overblown.

Our program right now is a thin shadow of its former self. We are a long way from elite status. A long way.
Now that we have the coach that most everyone wanted here, do we have the patience to let him build over the long haul? Because this is going to take several years to accomplish. And based on some of the comments I have read on here after our two losses, I am not certain we have the patience.
 

kakdawg

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It could also be a very simple explanation. We have two very young quarterbacks who have never started before. Do you really want to have your game plan be slinging it all over the field? Any coach will tell you that with a new, young QB you call a more conservative game.

That as well. That's why I kinda feel it's too early to form any opinions outside of right now they feel more comfortable with the run game for whatever reasons.

Holla
 
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husker2612

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No.

I'm the first to admit the Riley hire was a failure and he bombed but he came here to win. The guy already had plenty of money and by all accounts was living in the city he will likely die in. No chance did he move halfway across the country to only collect a paycheck.
I think the guy also enjoys coaching. I just don't believe he came here to win championships.
 

SoFL Husker

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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
Watch how many guys get drafted this year...
 
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SoFL Husker

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Just passing down memory lane after 2 straight 5am wake-up calls for work and a cocktail in my hand...

Remember Matt Herian? He could take the top off a defense

 

MOhusker12

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It could also be a very simple explanation. We have two very young quarterbacks who have never started before. Do you really want to have your game plan be slinging it all over the field? Any coach will tell you that with a new, young QB you call a more conservative game.
You are absolutely correct, even if a young player is physically gifted like Martinez you build for future success by being a bit conservative early on. If you try and have them do to much it can backfire and the player can regress. Even Georgia last year was conservative on offense when it came to throwing the ball and they played for the Championship. Tom Brady's first super bowl victory was a conservative game plan, I don't believe he even threw for 200 yards in that game.
 
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TruHusker

Offensive Coordinator
Sep 21, 2001
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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
The problem with your argument is it leaves little room. If you have the talent and don't win then you are either poorly coached, you have the first luck in the world, or your "talent" is soarse in key areas.

By saying the talent is there, you, in my mind, are calling out the coaches for their inability to obtain success.

Everyone can have an opinion, but it is clear now as it has been for the past couple of years that our talent is lacking in key areas, enough to make things difficult. Not just depth, weak on the front end.

Pile on that some mistakes at bad times and you have a mess. Personally, I think the coaches are complicit in this from a lot if different angles.
 

HuskerHI

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So why is SF running the ball so much? I don't think he is a stupid guy. I'm not sure I buy the B1G argument quite yet as he hasn't played a game there yet. Does he have a stubborn streak with regards to his game plan? What does he feel about his RB staple, WR corps, QB, and especially the OLine?
You’ve never watched SF offense before this season have you. Go study a zone read offense and you’ll see that roughly 58% of the time the play will be a run. Just because it’s an up tempo high scoring offense doesn’t mean SF throws the ball a lot.
 

husker2612

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Exactly. The true blue chip guys gravitate to the winning programs. This idea that we can just sell a kid on early playing time is way overblown.

Our program right now is a thin shadow of its former self. We are a long way from elite status. A long way.
Now that we have the coach that most everyone wanted here, do we have the patience to let him build over the long haul? Because this is going to take several years to accomplish. And based on some of the comments I have read on here after our two losses, I am not certain we have the patience.
I think people upset and complaining about 2 crappy losses and people not willing to give Frost a fair shot are 2 very different things. Maybe it is just me.
 
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Redondo

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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
from what I am noticing, it seems to be more of a not remembering how to win mentality and the o line needs help
 

dand84

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You’ve never watched SF offense before this season have you. Go study a zone read offense and you’ll see that roughly 58% of the time the play will be a run. Just because it’s an up tempo high scoring offense doesn’t mean SF throws the ball a lot.
Yes, I have watched every game from their 6-6 season as well as last season. The question being discussed is why he is running more than he has in the past? Tuco posted the numbers earlier in the thread. He is going from roughly 50/50 in the first half to 70/30 in the 1st half. Why?

Some posters such as Tuco say because he has influential people telling him to run it. Some because we are in the B1G and need to run. Some are saying it is because of his QB situation or because of the game situation or matchups. I am more willing to wait till longer in the season to see what the numbers say.

HCSF did say in many of his early pressers that he was going to meld what he was doing elsewhere with what made NU successful in the past. Maybe the new mix is part of that.
 

HuskerWisdom

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Do people really think that someone is influencing/dictating to Frost what his mix of play calls is during these games?

Sheesh. Frost is calling what he thinks will help us to win. He has a defense with a poor defensive backfield, an average set of WR's who drop the ball in key moments, an OL that is inconsistent at best, and a set of QBs who are absolutely new to his system (including a walk-on backup who never, ever expected to start a game)

Let's see how things look when the systems are in and the talent is more well matched to the system. My guess is that the ratio of run/pass will depend on what he has on the team and what teams are doing to stop them. Oregon's best teams ran the ball a lot as have Gus Malzahn's best teams - if you want a comparable, look to them.

For this year, all bets are off as we don't have the talent or experience to even guess at what Frost might "want" to do.
 

TruHusker

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from what I am noticing, it seems to be more of a not remembering how to win mentality and the o line needs help
That is much too simplistic thinking. You are making an assumption it is always a positive memory of winning. You make it sound like mind over matter whereas there are definitely physical issues that need to be fixed.
 
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TruHusker

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Sep 21, 2001
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I guess we will agree to disagree that we ran the ball very well most of the time. Against Troy we were 48 attempts for 187 yards or 3.9 ypc and the second half against Colorado we had 86 yards compared to the 236 in the 1st half. We ran the ball very well for 1 half or 4 halfs.

Opponents shut the run down by loading the box and against Colorado we didn't even try to pass the ball to counter it. We had 20 passing attempts in the first 57 minutes of the game. 11 in the first 30 minutes and 9 over the next 27 minutes. Then 9 in the final 3 minutes when Bunch was in and we were behind and needed to score.
Well I didn't say that we ran the ball well ALL of the time. We definitely had our struggles at times but you could see the potential of the offense and anytime you run for 300 you're doing something right. Last time I checked if you run the ball for 3.9 ypc 3 times in a row, you get a first down....every time.
That is the inherent problem with the Kelley spread. Read some of the data on the O and you will see they led the nation in long runs (or some similar stat) but also led the nation for plays for losses, so there is a lot of feast or famine.

This O is not designed to be 3.9 yards and a cloud of dust. You might get negative yards several times and then break one.
 

Dean Pope

Offensive Coordinator
Oct 11, 2001
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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
There IS a talent issue. We have some strong positions, but we are weak at two very important spots and that makes me grade our talent as "average" overall.

QB is the most important position talent wise. Everyone knows that. We have a true freshman and a walk-on backup who apparently isn't entrusted to operate the entire offense. When the true freshman is hurt, we are in the bottom 25% talent-wise at that spot.

Corner is another key spot, and I think we're down in talent there as well. One or two talented kids who are freshmen. Another player or two were are "athletic" but not talented football players. So we're down at that spot as well.

We have three scholarships dedicated to special teams and yet we're are one of the worst there. I've advocated all along that we should have used those scholarships for extra QBs (or another lacking position), and instead recruit walk-ons every year to battle it out to kick, punt and long snap. We've even had several walk-ons kick & snap in the NFL, but what do I know?
 

Redondo

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That is much too simplistic thinking. You are making an assumption it is always a positive memory of winning. You make it sound like mind over matter whereas there are definitely physical issues that need to be fixed.
As a Soph, I played on a team that was winless the year before, By the time we were seniors, we were 4 in the state. A lot of it is mental, especially mistakes and mental discipline issues and leadership. You might be correct IF this team was completely devoid of talent, which it isn't by any means. Also, IF this team had NO memory of winning because they hadn't ever won, BUT they won 4 games last year. They have some memory of it.

I didn't make an assumption it is "always a positive memory of winning". You made the assumption I assumed that. Winning is, however, a positive experience unless there are some other alternate, selfish motives. By saying they are not remembering how to win, I mean their mental lapses are sabotaging their efforts and hard work in practice, etc., and they need to EXPECT SUCCESS to get rid of their doubt that crept into their minds from losing those last several games last year. Just ask TO why he hired and retained Jack Stark, I think his name is, back in the day as team psychologist--to cultivate a winning, successful attitude and mentality.

So, no, I never said it was simple. You may have only inferred that.

Good, disciplined football is a mental game in a very big way. That's why the blown assignments occur, because of mental mistakes, You can believe this or not, but hard hitting is mental with an obvious physical component. A lot of smaller players have made big hits. Those Alabama teams that handled NU teams in the 60's were a lot smaller than NU. That was mental.

Bob Devaney used to ask some of his players if football is a game of mistakes. He would say it is, and the team that makes the fewest had a great chance to win the game. That is mental.

These players have the physical talent to have won those first 2 games, their mental mistakes didn't allow that. Just re-watch the games if you don't believe that.
 
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Solana Beach Husker

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Aug 8, 2008
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As a Soph, I played on a team that was winless the year before, By the time we were seniors, we were 4 in the state. A lot of it is mental, especially mistakes and mental discipline issues and leadership. You might be correct IF this team was completely devoid of talent, which it isn't by any means. Also, IF this team had NO memory of winning because they hadn't ever won, BUT they won 4 games last year. They have some memory of it.

Good, disciplined football is a mental game in a very big way. That's why the blown assignments occur, because of mental mistakes, You can believe this or not, but hard hitting is mental with an obvious physical component.

Bob Devaney used to ask some of his players if football is a game of mistakes. He would say it is, and the team that make the fewest had a great chance to win the game. That is mental.

These players have the physical talent to have won those first 2 games, their mental mistakes didn't allow that. Just re-watch the games if you don't believe that.
I think talent comes into play when players are overwhelmed by scheme and the opponent continually beats them. I noticed against Troy that our corners were beat simply because of leverage...that is a big deal but talented corners aren't beat by 10 yards because of leverage. The troy guy had more speed and athleticism and a 40 yard gain because of leverage. On Bunchies best pass of the day our best WR was covered by their outside lb...again if we had the talent our best wr would have beaten their lb by 5 yards on a 25 yard route. That is a lack of speed. Their dline continually beat our olineman in one on one situations...some of this of course is due to confusion and assignments, but plenty of times Bunchie was hit on release by a four man rush. We do not have the talent to keep our qb safe against an athletic line. And then on the punt return...Troy had 3-4 guys blocking at the goal line..when have you seen an average punt returner able to return a punt for a td, and have the punt coverage catch up to the point where there was a traffic jam at the endzone. This points to a lack of speed and some loafing. I think we are mistaking lack of effort and lack of execution with inability to execute. It may be that some guys can't do what is being asked of them, and make mistakes under pressure when asked to do things that are hard to do. We know Bunchie is doing his best, but just doesn't have the ability, why can't this apply to other positions? Even scholarship ones...we know Bo was throwing in the towel as early as 2013 class, and 2014 was a joke...those guys are seniors or rsh juniors. And of course MR brought in the softest guys imaginable.
 

Redondo

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I agree, but both those games were lost by only 5 points and contained missed field goals, a td punt return, a dropped sure touchdown, blown assignments all over the field, which some of those dbs had, and blown blocking assignments. Those loses were, obviously, not just some disparity of talent. If NU would have made fewer mistakes, they could very well have been wins.

On some of those offensive line plays, there might have been some success it those o linemen had just stepped in front of the d linemen instead of falling down at their feet. Again, those guys are not paraplegics. If they quit, that is mental. They may not know how to win because mentally, they are somehow going to lose, which you described very descriptively in you post.

On a punt return, hustle is mental. Team defense is mental. My contention is, yes they had been outrun at times, but keeping lane integrity, stuffing a block, concentrating on the ball into your hands is concentration, etc., and are mental.

Why? I don't know, but I suspect that may be why SF said those that aren't up for the ride should get off, now
 
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TruHusker

Offensive Coordinator
Sep 21, 2001
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I agree, but both those games were lost by only 5 points and contained missed field goals, a td punt return, a dropped sure touchdown, blown assignments all over the field, which some of those dbs had, and blown blocking assignments. Those loses were, obviously, not just some disparity of talent. If NU would have made fewer mistakes, they could very well have been wins.

On some of those offensive line plays, there might have been some success it those o linemen had just stepped in front of the d linemen instead of falling down at their feet. Again, those guys are not paraplegics. If they quit, that is mental. They may not know how to win because mentally, they are somehow going to lose, which you described very descriptively in you post.

On a punt return, hustle is mental. Team defense is mental. My contention is, yes they had been outrun at times, but keeping lane integrity, stuffing a block, concentrating on the ball into your hands is concentration, etc., and are mental.

Why? I don't know, but I suspect that may be why SF said those that aren't up for the ride should get off, now
I don't even know where to start with this. Obviously, everything is mental, that is where it has to start. But a guy not making a tackle on special teams even though he was in position is not mental, it is physical. I have said this before and in my day of being around HS athletes, the good coaches get the players in position to make the plays, after that it is the players ability to make it that takes over. The mental part of the game comes, and this is where Stark came in, is when you are down and not playing well, you giving your best which is physical. You don't let your mind tell your body it is tired, that is mental and physical.

There are plenty of less than mental giants that are very good football players. You seemed to want to say it is all mental, well some is but football is a very physical game, no way around that. You hit the other guy harder than he hit you, over and over. I worked with kids who couldn't speak a lick of English and who had played very little football and X's and O's were a bit foreign to them but point them in a direction and tell him what they need to do physically and look out.
 

oldjar07

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I don't even know where to start with this. Obviously, everything is mental, that is where it has to start. But a guy not making a tackle on special teams even though he was in position is not mental, it is physical. I have said this before and in my day of being around HS athletes, the good coaches get the players in position to make the plays, after that it is the players ability to make it that takes over. The mental part of the game comes, and this is where Stark came in, is when you are down and not playing well, you giving your best which is physical. You don't let your mind tell your body it is tired, that is mental and physical.

There are plenty of less than mental giants that are very good football players. You seemed to want to say it is all mental, well some is but football is a very physical game, no way around that. You hit the other guy harder than he hit you, over and over. I worked with kids who couldn't speak a lick of English and who had played very little football and X's and O's were a bit foreign to them but point them in a direction and tell him what they need to do physically and look out.
Those big dummy players might not be very good at cognitive thinking but they have great spatial awareness and coordination and that requires a great degree of mental thinking.
 

Redondo

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I don't even know where to start with this. Obviously, everything is mental, that is where it has to start. But a guy not making a tackle on special teams even though he was in position is not mental, it is physical. I have said this before and in my day of being around HS athletes, the good coaches get the players in position to make the plays, after that it is the players ability to make it that takes over. The mental part of the game comes, and this is where Stark came in, is when you are down and not playing well, you giving your best which is physical. You don't let your mind tell your body it is tired, that is mental and physical.

There are plenty of less than mental giants that are very good football players. You seemed to want to say it is all mental, well some is but football is a very physical game, no way around that. You hit the other guy harder than he hit you, over and over. I worked with kids who couldn't speak a lick of English and who had played very little football and X's and O's were a bit foreign to them but point them in a direction and tell him what they need to do physically and look out.
I have the feeling you and I aren't as far apart as you may think.

No, I'm not saying it is ALL mental and is obviously physical or we would all just be watching an animated movie or playstation for the game. But, you won't be in proper position on a play unless you thought about where you need to be in the first place. Your "head has to be in the game" so to speak.

Maybe in peewee football or junior high fb or even some hs fb you can get by with just brute force, but, obviously college fb is much more complex. But, you are saying you need very good athletes in the college game, which is obvious, but I am saying even those great athletes have to be mentally prepared and believe they can win.

IMO, NU had enough talent to win those 2 games. I'm not so sure they totally believed they would win them, however.

You, can also, have the greatest group of athletes ever assembled and still be beaten because they are not mentally ready to play the game. Just look at miami in 2001. They had some close calls even though they had tremendous talent..

You don't need geniuses to play football it is obvious. But preparation is at least half mental IMO. But what I am saying is if you don't have a winning attitude and at least think you can win, then most likely, you won't. You maybe wouldn't have won regardless, but without at least a belief you can win, then your chances are slim and none.

Also, if you are in the best possible position to make a play, you better be mentally ready to hit a guy even at the risk of getting hurt yourself, or you are going to close your eyes and whiff. Meanness and toughness are just as much a state of mind. Just ask a marine. That is why marines train and football players practice and, also, think about their assignments before a game. If they don't have them down before the game, they can be the biggest, fastest, and best athlete ever, but they'll still look like fools.

No, it is not all mental, but it sure isn't ALL physical. I was an undersized lineman in hs playing against some guys that were 75 pounds and 6 inches bigger than I was and I beat every one of them. I beat them because I KNEW that I would, and that started with a belief (and quickness, leverage, and pad level).

My uncle was an undersized O guard in hs and all conference, and later, a decorated combat marine in Korea. He taught me a lot about winning the battle up front. Believe me when I say that we had to believe we were going to beat those guys, or we would have had no chance to do it. I've been there and had a lot of fun doing it. It was like a brawl in there.

My specialty was getting tackles on KOs and punts. When I went down field hunting for the ball, I did it with an attitude and ready to hit someone and I got a lot of tackles. I remember once I was a little timid and had a clear shot at an all conference guy, but for some reason closed my eyes, whiffed, and ended up running into our bench. That was the one play my dad reminded me of years later when he was an old man. But, I wasn't "mentally" ready to put a hit on him.

That's why SF is trying to change the culture. It starts with a winning attitude. Even something as physical as going to the weight room. If one doesn't have the right frame of mind to go to work and get better, then they might not even show up as what was rumored to have happened the last few years.

Any and ALL movements in the human body first start out as a thought.
 
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SoFL Husker

Defensive Coordinator
Sep 16, 2017
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I think talent comes into play when players are overwhelmed by scheme and the opponent continually beats them. I noticed against Troy that our corners were beat simply because of leverage...that is a big deal but talented corners aren't beat by 10 yards because of leverage. The troy guy had more speed and athleticism and a 40 yard gain because of leverage. On Bunchies best pass of the day our best WR was covered by their outside lb...again if we had the talent our best wr would have beaten their lb by 5 yards on a 25 yard route. That is a lack of speed. Their dline continually beat our olineman in one on one situations...some of this of course is due to confusion and assignments, but plenty of times Bunchie was hit on release by a four man rush. We do not have the talent to keep our qb safe against an athletic line. And then on the punt return...Troy had 3-4 guys blocking at the goal line..when have you seen an average punt returner able to return a punt for a td, and have the punt coverage catch up to the point where there was a traffic jam at the endzone. This points to a lack of speed and some loafing. I think we are mistaking lack of effort and lack of execution with inability to execute. It may be that some guys can't do what is being asked of them, and make mistakes under pressure when asked to do things that are hard to do. We know Bunchie is doing his best, but just doesn't have the ability, why can't this apply to other positions? Even scholarship ones...we know Bo was throwing in the towel as early as 2013 class, and 2014 was a joke...those guys are seniors or rsh juniors. And of course MR brought in the softest guys imaginable.
Look at KJJr. The worst 4 star in the history of 4 stars, and the softest too. Great post.
 

SoFL Husker

Defensive Coordinator
Sep 16, 2017
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I have the feeling you and I aren't as far apart as you may think.

No, I'm not saying it is ALL mental and is obviously physical or we would all just be watching an animated movie or playstation for the game. But, you won't be in proper position on a play unless you thought about where you need to be in the first place. Your "head has to be in the game" so to speak.

Maybe in peewee football or junior high fb or even some hs fb you can get by with just brute force, but, obviously college fb is much more complex. But, you are saying you need very good athletes in the college game, which is obvious, but I am saying even those great athletes have to be mentally prepared and believe they can win.

IMO, NU had enough talent to win those 2 games. I'm not so sure they totally believed they would win them, however.

You, can also, have the greatest group of athletes ever assembled and still be beaten because they are not mentally ready to play the game. Just look at miami in 2001. They had some close calls even though they had tremendous talent..

You don't need geniuses to play football it is obvious. But preparation is at least half mental IMO. But what I am saying is if you don't have a winning attitude and at least think you can win, then most likely, you won't. You maybe wouldn't have won regardless, but without at least a belief you can win, then your chances are slim and none.

Also, if you are in the best possible position to make a play, you better be mentally ready to hit a guy even at the risk of getting hurt yourself, or you are going to close your eyes and whiff. Meanness and toughness are just as much a state of mind. Just ask a marine. That is why marines train and football players practice and, also, think about their assignments before a game. If they don't have them down before the game, they can be the biggest, fastest, and best athlete ever, but they'll still look like fools.

No, it is not all mental, but it sure isn't ALL physical. I was an undersized lineman in hs playing against some guys that were 75 pounds and 6 inches bigger than I was and I beat every one of them. I beat them because I KNEW that I would, and that started with a belief (and quickness, leverage, and pad level).

My uncle was an undersized O guard in hs and all conference, and later, a decorated combat marine in Korea. He taught me a lot about winning the battle up front. Believe me when I say that we had to believe we were going to beat those guys, or we would have had no chance to do it. I've been there and had a lot of fun doing it. It was like a brawl in there.

My specialty was getting tackles on KOs and punts. When I went down field hunting for the ball, I did it with an attitude and ready to hit someone and I got a lot of tackles. I remember once I was a little timid and had a clear shot at an all conference guy, but for some reason closed my eyes, whiffed, and ended up running into our bench. That was the one play my dad reminded me of years later when he was an old man. But, I wasn't "mentally" ready to put a hit on him.

That's why SF is trying to change the culture. It starts with a winning attitude. Even something as physical as going to the weight room. If one doesn't have the right frame of mind to go to work and get better, then they might not even show up as what was rumored to have happened the last few years.

Any and ALL movements in the human body first start out as a thought.
No offense, it sounds like you were a helluva HS football mentality and intensity, but the translation isn't valid. It isn't the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's. And if you think otherwise, you spend too much time fondly reminiscing about Bruce Springsteen's glory days.

We aren't in Kansas anymore Dorothy. This is big time football.
 

Footballfinatic2016

Redshirt Freshman
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Dec 2, 2015
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No offense, it sounds like you were a helluva HS football mentality and intensity, but the translation isn't valid. It isn't the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's. And if you think otherwise, you spend too much time fondly reminiscing about Bruce Springsteen's glory days.

We aren't in Kansas anymore Dorothy. This is big time football.
Well said. It’s the Jimmy and Joes!! We don’t have them. I bet we don’t have anyone on the team that gets drafted in the top 4 rounds. Getting 1, just 1 single top 200 player year after year isn’t getting the Jimmy and the Joes. Unfortunately it isn’t going to change any time soon.

SF isn’t a stud recruiter as much as we’d all want our kids to play for him.

I think you hope for that special team that gels once a decade like UCF last year. We don’t have the speed or talent they had. Just look at the draft.
 

Redondo

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2012
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Well said. It’s the Jimmy and Joes!! We don’t have them. I bet we don’t have anyone on the team that gets drafted in the top 4 rounds. Getting 1, just 1 single top 200 player year after year isn’t getting the Jimmy and the Joes. Unfortunately it isn’t going to change any time soon.

SF isn’t a stud recruiter as much as we’d all want our kids to play for him.

I think you hope for that special team that gels once a decade like UCF last year. We don’t have the speed or talent they had. Just look at the draft.
Your guys are right, I didn't say it doesn't take talent, I said, though, that even elite talent has to have their heads in the game. NU had the talent to beat those 2 teams, and as proof, it wasn't even close to a blowout. A few plays here or there, and they could have been wins. If NU played anyone in the top 10 or 15, it very well could have been a blowout. But, 5 points and those bad plays were the difference. They found a way to give up those games because they had doubts they would win and their mistakes proved it to themselves.

This from Tanner Farmer to an extent emphases what I am TRYING to talking about.

https://www.huskermax.com/buying-in-tanner-farmers-remarks-spark-a-btn-discussion/

This is what I am trying to say and have probably could have done a better, more succinct way to do it. Farmer has been much more succinct and accurate than I. Sorry
 
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Redondo

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2012
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No offense, it sounds like you were a helluva HS football mentality and intensity, but the translation isn't valid. It isn't the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's. And if you think otherwise, you spend too much time fondly reminiscing about Bruce Springsteen's glory days.


aren't in Kansas anymore Dorothy. This is big time football.
You may not have meant it, but I don't think the smart remark was necessary. I earned what ever memories I might have. That sounds like my smart ass older brother and I'll spend my time doing whatever I want, and Springsteen has nothing to do with them. And I never met a dorothy. I personally knew some guys on the 71 team and helped them get through organic chemistry and had some great conversations and realized the culture.

What do you know about big time football? Did you miss your true calling or is armchair your greatest glory?
 
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Solana Beach Husker

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 8, 2008
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I agree, but both those games were lost by only 5 points and contained missed field goals, a td punt return, a dropped sure touchdown, blown assignments all over the field, which some of those dbs had, and blown blocking assignments. Those loses were, obviously, not just some disparity of talent. If NU would have made fewer mistakes, they could very well have been wins.

On some of those offensive line plays, there might have been some success it those o linemen had just stepped in front of the d linemen instead of falling down at their feet. Again, those guys are not paraplegics. If they quit, that is mental. They may not know how to win because mentally, they are somehow going to lose, which you described very descriptively in you post.

On a punt return, hustle is mental. Team defense is mental. My contention is, yes they had been outrun at times, but keeping lane integrity, stuffing a block, concentrating on the ball into your hands is concentration, etc., and are mental.

Why? I don't know, but I suspect that may be why SF said those that aren't up for the ride should get off, now
If you watch tape across college football you will see nearly every team make mistakes on every play. The reason an inferior team gets 15 yards against a power 5 team is often a mistake...but teams like Michigan hold that player to a 15 yard gain. We gave up a 60 yard gain to a 230 pound backup qb, and the game winning touchdown to a 170 pound back who ran 25 yards untouched. Frosty is breaking things down to mental mistakes but sometimes teams just aren't good enough to t do the things needed to win When mistakes are persistent it is talent, not mental. And many times mental can be considered talent. Ricky T. never saw the field because his mental talent was not up to par. I can guarantee you that the top teams pass on mentally inferior talent, and this brings us back to the slow blinker designations that the coaching staff gives to players. The proof is in the data...the product is 1-8 in the last 9 games, with a win against one of the worst power 5 teams ever. They have lost 6 in a row at home, one of the most intimidating environments in college football. That sort of data points to a massively untalented team.
 

SoFL Husker

Defensive Coordinator
Sep 16, 2017
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If you watch tape across college football you will see nearly every team make mistakes on every play. The reason an inferior team gets 15 yards against a power 5 team is often a mistake...but teams like Michigan hold that player to a 15 yard gain. We gave up a 60 yard gain to a 230 pound backup qb, and the game winning touchdown to a 170 pound back who ran 25 yards untouched. Frosty is breaking things down to mental mistakes but sometimes teams just aren't good enough to t do the things needed to win When mistakes are persistent it is talent, not mental. And many times mental can be considered talent. Ricky T. never saw the field because his mental talent was not up to par. I can guarantee you that the top teams pass on mentally inferior talent, and this brings us back to the slow blinker designations that the coaching staff gives to players. The proof is in the data...the product is 1-8 in the last 9 games, with a win against one of the worst power 5 teams ever. They have lost 6 in a row at home, one of the most intimidating environments in college football. That sort of data points to a massively untalented team.
KJjr. 4 star
 

Redondo

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2012
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If you watch tape across college football you will see nearly every team make mistakes on every play. The reason an inferior team gets 15 yards against a power 5 team is often a mistake...but teams like Michigan hold that player to a 15 yard gain. We gave up a 60 yard gain to a 230 pound backup qb, and the game winning touchdown to a 170 pound back who ran 25 yards untouched. Frosty is breaking things down to mental mistakes but sometimes teams just aren't good enough to t do the things needed to win When mistakes are persistent it is talent, not mental. And many times mental can be considered talent. Ricky T. never saw the field because his mental talent was not up to par. I can guarantee you that the top teams pass on mentally inferior talent, and this brings us back to the slow blinker designations that the coaching staff gives to players. The proof is in the data...the product is 1-8 in the last 9 games, with a win against one of the worst power 5 teams ever. They have lost 6 in a row at home, one of the most intimidating environments in college football. That sort of data points to a massively untalented team.
Yes Bob Devaney said fb is a game of mistakes and tried to get his teams to make the fewest.

No doubt you have to have talent, and I am not saying you don't need talent as, obviously you have to have it, but what I AM saying is raw talent in and of itself is not all that is needed, otherwise texass would be world beaters every year, upsets would never occur, and games wouldn't need to be played because bookies and talent raters could just declare the winners. Obviously that is fallacy.

You can have your opinions about those 2 games, but if one of those 2 passes had been caught on the sideline or endzone against cu and one or two breaks and penalties had gone differently against troy, those games could have been won. Yes there is a talent void at NU and SF knows it, but there is also an attitude problem in some that don't by in. Listen to Tanner Farmer.

But if it were based on physical talent alone, NU would not have won against OU in 78, wouldn't have won NC's in 70, 94, or 97 IMO because cu had more talent in 94, usc would have beaten NU in 70 and ohio st had more that year IMO, and there were more talented rosters in 97 , but not better teams those years because the will to win and overcome adversity was there, also.

NU has been considered as having the 2 best teams in history, not because they, necessarily, had the most talent, although they did have great talent, but because of their culture and mental make up also made them the greatest teams as in teamwork because of culture. They just refused to lose and once they had their cleats on the necks of their opponents, they refused to let up. Their attitude was to stomp the crap out of them.

If they hadn't had that mental make up, they would have lost when they were behind vs miami in 94 and possibly k state when Turman had to play. He, certainly wasn't the best player on the field, but they won. missery would have won in 97 and tenn may have had more talent, but NU had a will to win. That's why they would have stomped mich.

Yes talent includes Mentality. Duh Just situational awareness alone makes that obvious, along with knowing and remembering their individual assignments and physical talent allows them to fulfill those assignments. Yes that's part of talent, too, AND a will to get better and work to develop are DECISIONS as in a mental attitude making a culture of winning.

Sometimes talented people just aren't hungry enough to use their god given talent to optimize results. Some people are just unmotivated and lazy.


And I've heard it both ways on this board. Some guys say SF inherited more talent than bp and some say this team has very little talent. It's probably somewhere in between, but the oline seems to have voids.

I think it is what it is, and SF just has to play with the cards he's been dealt until a full, mature recruiting program can work. Let's hope so. GBR

I didn't know troy was one of the worst p 5 teams ever. I thought they had a decent season last year. Didn't they beat lsu or somebody?
 
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