100% disagree with the lack of talent sentiment

hddude55

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 14, 2002
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We read recruiting site ratings of these guys when they are high school kids. The recruiting sites seem to agree that we signed more talented high school kids than many of our opponents. But what these kids become three or four years later is an entirely different matter. Frost and company may give them better coaching but it may be too little, too late for the upperclassmen.
 

TFC2001

Walk On
Jan 21, 2004
336
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The team is 1-8 in its last nine games. Just let that sink in for a moment. I honestly believe they just don't know how to win right now. They are close, and once they taste it, who knows what will happen. They just have to learn how to win again (and I believe Frost will get them there).
 

TheBeav815

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
Feb 19, 2007
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There's talent. What they don't have is depth. There are still several position groups where if you lose a guy or two, you're up the creek. QB is one, OL is another.

Did Barry get dinged on Saturday? Sounds like his absence was noticed when he left the game...
 

SkerInCo

First Team All-Big Ten
Apr 26, 2004
3,722
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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
Problem is that Riley didn't continue to develop them. It was water balloon fights and ice cream instead.
 
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jlb321

Recruiting Coordinator
Aug 8, 2014
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If we lose there is lack of talent and a culture of losing that might take years to overcome.

If we were 2-0 - the party line would be there is plenty of talent and all it took was a good coach that does more with less. This has been the narrative since December and was pretty consistent right up until we pissed the CU game away
 

hddude55

Defensive Coordinator
Jan 14, 2002
7,609
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Arizona
The team is 1-8 in its last nine games. Just let that sink in for a moment. I honestly believe they just don't know how to win right now. They are close, and once they taste it, who knows what will happen. They just have to learn how to win again (and I believe Frost will get them there).
True, but I was surprised to see the last quarter of the Troy game. After all of the publicity about off season strength work and our renewed commitment to the run, I expected to see physical dominance by the second half — especially the fourth quarter. It didn’t happen, which is scary as we face the Big Ten.
 

9and4

Junior
Dec 4, 2013
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Iowa City
There's talent. What they don't have is depth. There are still several position groups where if you lose a guy or two, you're up the creek. QB is one, OL is another.

Did Barry get dinged on Saturday? Sounds like his absence was noticed when he left the game...
Barry got booted in the second quarter on a targeting call. So we played without our best defender for most of the game, and we played without our best playmaker on offense for the entire game. Not an excuse, just an explanation. ;)
 

frostonthegrass

Walk On
Nov 10, 2017
329
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There's talent. What they don't have is depth. There are still several position groups where if you lose a guy or two, you're up the creek. QB is one, OL is another.

Did Barry get dinged on Saturday? Sounds like his absence was noticed when he left the game...
Yeah, he got dinged alright, ejected for targeting
 
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MOhusker12

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Nov 22, 2010
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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
Problem is that of the 39 guys we signed in 2016 and 2017, 15 are not with the program anymore. So we lack depth and talent at certain spots which makes it hard to win when you compound that with turnovers and penalties.
 

Husker223

Newbie
Sep 4, 2018
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Depth in some spots are concerning but honestly I think the talent level at every team is becoming more even which is making winning/dominating a lot harder than the past. You have to look at supplements, training and sports science now which is evening the playing fiend.
 

headcard

Nebraska Legend
Feb 2, 2005
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Talent is a tricky thing. Kids get a ranking out of HS based on what analysts believe they could develop into. But when they aren't developed on the field or in the weight room, it all goes out the window. Add in the attrition from two recent coaching changes and our current roster really is a shell of what the recruiting rankings would indicate.
 

husker2612

Graduate Assistant
Nov 29, 2010
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Talent is a tricky thing. Kids get a ranking out of HS based on what analysts believe they could develop into. But when they aren't developed on the field or in the weight room, it all goes out the window. Add in the attrition from two recent coaching changes and our current roster really is a shell of what the recruiting rankings would indicate.
Agree, but the odds of 75% of our team not panning out is slim. I can see a few here and there. This team has talent. Frost just needs to find a way to maximize it.
 

oldjar07

First Team All-Big Ten
Oct 25, 2009
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If we lose there is lack of talent and a culture of losing that might take years to overcome.

If we were 2-0 - the party line would be there is plenty of talent and all it took was a good coach that does more with less. This has been the narrative since December and was pretty consistent right up until we pissed the CU game away
There's always people on both sides of the issue. Most people thought we had the talent to get to 7 or 8 wins. That's nowhere good enough if 7 or 8 wins is the ceiling. At the start of the season I thought our ceiling was closer to 10 wins, and I still think we have that level of talent, but the coaching has been poor in some areas along with not having a suitable backup qb, and we're in the position we're in right now, even with enough talent to compete for the West division title.
 

Antwill

Blackshirt
Dec 18, 2004
3,283
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We have some talent, but not the amount we need to be a true contender. Plus, we haven't developed the players we have had for YEARS. And when I say years I mean we haven't done a good job of it since the Solich era.

Couple that with the total collapse of the culture under Riley and we've got the mess on our hands that we do. We've pretty much totally forgotten how to win at this point and it's going to take some wins to get us back on track. Unfortunately, our schedule this year is going to make those hard to come by and losing to Troy doesn't do anything to help the psyche of the team.

We need to be patient with all this. The program has been degenerating for the past 20 years. Each coach more or less left it in worse shape than when he got it. Frost is the right man for the job. We just need to support him an give him time. Frankly, I think he is our last and best chance to return to relevance.
 
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Tuco Salamanca

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 18, 2016
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True, but I was surprised to see the last quarter of the Troy game. After all of the publicity about off season strength work and our renewed commitment to the run, I expected to see physical dominance by the second half — especially the fourth quarter. It didn’t happen, which is scary as we face the Big Ten.
We ran 10 less plays against Troy than we did against Colorado, against Troy we had the ball for 3 more minutes.

This offense is most effective when it goes at a faster pace and with more balance.

My opinion, in looking at the numbers, is that Frost is going away from what made his offense so great at Oregon and UCF.

I have posted the exact numbers before, so I won't do that again, but over the course of his 5 years as a play caller, he is about 53/47 run/pass in the 1st half of games and 62/38 in the 2nd half. He also runs 7-8 more plays per game in the 1st half than he does in the 2nd. So far this season, Nebraska is 70/30 run/pass in the first half and 60/40 run/pass in the 2nd half. The total plays is only about 3.5 more in the 1st half as compared to the 2nd half.

Just a little insight into the actual numbers.
 

TheBeav815

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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Problem is that of the 39 guys we signed in 2016 and 2017, 15 are not with the program anymore. So we lack depth and talent at certain spots which makes it hard to win when you compound that with turnovers and penalties.
And it dates back further than that. The OWH has done great work on this subject, NU hasn't been able to keep the core of its classes on campus for 4-5 years going back several years.

It leaves you in a spot where instead of 3* backing up 4* with the occasional walk-on breaking through and winning a job, you have walk-ons backing up 3* and starting all over the field because you haven't even come close to keeping 85 scholarship guys active.

Nebraska is right back there again, TONS of attrition and they are well short of 85 scholarships on the roster even after giving out a couple to walk-on kids. This is going to be a big class and they need it in the worst way. Can't get too many JUCO guys.
 

AFTray

Redshirt Freshman
Dec 22, 2007
619
698
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We ran 10 less plays against Troy than we did against Colorado, against Troy we had the ball for 3 more minutes.

This offense is most effective when it goes at a faster pace and with more balance.

My opinion, in looking at the numbers, is that Frost is going away from what made his offense so great at Oregon and UCF.

I have posted the exact numbers before, so I won't do that again, but over the course of his 5 years as a play caller, he is about 53/47 run/pass in the 1st half of games and 62/38 in the 2nd half. He also runs 7-8 more plays per game in the 1st half than he does in the 2nd. So far this season, Nebraska is 70/30 run/pass in the first half and 60/40 run/pass in the 2nd half. The total plays is only about 3.5 more in the 1st half as compared to the 2nd half.

Just a little insight into the actual numbers.
Do you think that much of that has a lot to do with having a walk-on QB starting?
 

jlb321

Recruiting Coordinator
Aug 8, 2014
6,950
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And it dates back further than that. The OWH has done great work on this subject, NU hasn't been able to keep the core of its classes on campus for 4-5 years going back several years.

It leaves you in a spot where instead of 3* backing up 4* with the occasional walk-on breaking through and winning a job, you have walk-ons backing up 3* and starting all over the field because you haven't even come close to keeping 85 scholarship guys active.

Nebraska is right back there again, TONS of attrition and they are well short of 85 scholarships on the roster even after giving out a couple to walk-on kids. This is going to be a big class and they need it in the worst way. Can't get too many JUCO guys.

IMO - walk-on underclassman should see regular playing time on offense or defense to get a scholarship - ie on the 2 deep depth chart. I’m not sure special teams play should equate to a scholarship unless they are a senior and you have scholarships to give. Dangerous precedent to set if the bar to hand out a scholly is being on a special teams unit.
 

Tuco Salamanca

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 18, 2016
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Do you think that much of that has a lot to do with having a walk-on QB starting?
Of course the pace was a little slower for Troy than it was for Colorado because of who was at QB. But the run/pass mix was the same for Colorado as it was for Troy. I think Frost is buying too much into the "Your offense won't work in the Big Ten unless you run the ball". Either that or Martinez isn't the thrower he needs to be, in which case, we will be in for a long season regardless of who is at QB.

Troy did nothing but load the box with 8 or 9 and beg Nebraska to throw. If Troy can dictate playcalling, I am pretty sure the defenses in the Big Ten can and will.

As I have said before, when Frost is more balanced, it keeps linebackers and safeties honest. When linebackers and safeties have to cover in space on one play, then come up and fit in the run the next, then, using the same offensive formation, have them back covering in space, The defenders will be more fatigued than they are when they just fit a gap running downhill.
 

jlb321

Recruiting Coordinator
Aug 8, 2014
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Of course the pace was a little slower for Troy than it was for Colorado because of who was at QB. But the run/pass mix was the same for Colorado as it was for Troy. I think Frost is buying too much into the "Your offense won't work in the Big Ten unless you run the ball". Either that or Martinez isn't the thrower he needs to be, in which case, we will be in for a long season regardless of who is at QB.

Troy did nothing but load the box with 8 or 9 and beg Nebraska to throw. If Troy can dictate playcalling, I am pretty sure the defenses in the Big Ten can and will.

As I have said before, when Frost is more balanced, it keeps linebackers and safeties honest. When linebackers and safeties have to cover in space on one play, then come up and fit in the run the next, then, using the same offensive formation, have them back covering in space, The defenders will be more fatigued than they are when they just fit a gap running downhill.
I am surprised at the lack of success with bubble screens and quick throws to our wide outs.
 

dand84

Senior
Oct 28, 2017
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I haven't really analyzed either game too much so this is more gut reaction, but I can see all the runs against Colorado because it was working well. I get the game plan for Troy simply to protect Bunch or because of lack of trust in him, whichever.

My question is what do you all think about our receiving corps so far? For me, they are the most disappointing group so far out of where I thought our strengths were going to be. Could some of the run/pass ratio be driven by lack of production from some new players we thought would do more? It seems we are having a really difficult time getting open.
 

ThrowBones92

Redshirt Freshman
Sep 5, 2011
533
561
93
Kansas City
We ran 10 less plays against Troy than we did against Colorado, against Troy we had the ball for 3 more minutes.

This offense is most effective when it goes at a faster pace and with more balance.

My opinion, in looking at the numbers, is that Frost is going away from what made his offense so great at Oregon and UCF.

I have posted the exact numbers before, so I won't do that again, but over the course of his 5 years as a play caller, he is about 53/47 run/pass in the 1st half of games and 62/38 in the 2nd half. He also runs 7-8 more plays per game in the 1st half than he does in the 2nd. So far this season, Nebraska is 70/30 run/pass in the first half and 60/40 run/pass in the 2nd half. The total plays is only about 3.5 more in the 1st half as compared to the 2nd half.

Just a little insight into the actual numbers.
What is the total play count for each sample, ball park? Did you look at standard deviations? Right now, we're comparing 2 games data to 69 games of data. I'm not saying you're not onto something, but the trend needs time to establish itself.
 

rrthusker

Administrator
Moderator
Jul 24, 2001
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There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe[/QUOTE

If you focus on the OL not sure how you can think we are talented in comparison to top squads. Just because local sportswriters say it does not make it so.
 

SilentCommit

Sophomore
Jun 19, 2013
1,145
686
113
There is this sentiment that Nebraska's issue is a talent issue. This is just not true. I think frost has even started the talent here is pretty comparable to at Ucf.

Now talent QB now maybe
Wait a minute. Hadn't the roster turned over like 51 players going into the Fall? Thought I read that somewhere. That's like....half the scholarship players. Shouldn't that be a factor in the discussion?
 
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NikkiSixx

Graduate Assistant
Sep 14, 2013
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but Coach Riley was killing it in recruiting!

And some are still blaming Bo?

lol
 

TheBeav815

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
Feb 19, 2007
18,224
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Chicago Suburbs
I haven't really analyzed either game too much so this is more gut reaction, but I can see all the runs against Colorado because it was working well. I get the game plan for Troy simply to protect Bunch or because of lack of trust in him, whichever.

My question is what do you all think about our receiving corps so far? For me, they are the most disappointing group so far out of where I thought our strengths were going to be. Could some of the run/pass ratio be driven by lack of production from some new players we thought would do more? It seems we are having a really difficult time getting open.
Couple things happening there:

1) The NU WR have been the most over-hyped position group maybe in the entire country the last couple years. Year after year we hear how these guys are the best corps in the B1G and the play on the field pretty much never bears that out. According to August hype there's at least a couple 1,000 yd receivers on that team and then it never materializes.

2) I don't think the game plan made WRs much of a factor this week. Against CU those two crucial drops contributed heavily to an L. One is a sure TD, the other a vital first down. Until you stop dropping those balls, you're not the elite WR corps anyone has been talking about around here the last few years.

There's a ton of raw talent and potential there, but they can't throw the ball to themselves and even if they could, they'd drop it.
 

CC_Lemming

First Team All-Big Ten
Oct 21, 2001
3,998
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We ran 10 less plays against Troy than we did against Colorado, against Troy we had the ball for 3 more minutes.

This offense is most effective when it goes at a faster pace and with more balance.

My opinion, in looking at the numbers, is that Frost is going away from what made his offense so great at Oregon and UCF.

I have posted the exact numbers before, so I won't do that again, but over the course of his 5 years as a play caller, he is about 53/47 run/pass in the 1st half of games and 62/38 in the 2nd half. He also runs 7-8 more plays per game in the 1st half than he does in the 2nd. So far this season, Nebraska is 70/30 run/pass in the first half and 60/40 run/pass in the 2nd half. The total plays is only about 3.5 more in the 1st half as compared to the 2nd half.

Just a little insight into the actual numbers.
I think we need more time to assess before we draw any definitive conclusions. (I assume you'd agree). After all, in the first game we were starting a true freshman and in the second game a walk-on sophomore whose passing skills are diminished a great deal compared to the other QBs Frost has worked with. We'd need to compare these two games to, say, Milton's first two games. But even then the comparisons will not be perfect, as both teams have different skill position players and strengths and weaknesses.
 

Tuco Salamanca

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 18, 2016
9,383
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I think we need more time to assess before we draw any definitive conclusions. (I assume you'd agree). After all, in the first game we were starting a true freshman and in the second game a walk-on sophomore whose passing skills are diminished a great deal compared to the other QBs Frost has worked with. We'd need to compare these two games to, say, Milton's first two games. But even then the comparisons will not be perfect, as both teams have different skill position players and strengths and weaknesses.
I didn’t bring my laptop home from the office so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to set you accurate info.

I just know that each year individually and collectively the numbers were very close to the 53% or 54% run in the 1st half of games.

We can wait all year if you want. However I believe that Frost has altered his play calling the 1st 2 games.
 

Tuco Salamanca

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 18, 2016
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I haven't really analyzed either game too much so this is more gut reaction, but I can see all the runs against Colorado because it was working well. I get the game plan for Troy simply to protect Bunch or because of lack of trust in him, whichever.

My question is what do you all think about our receiving corps so far? For me, they are the most disappointing group so far out of where I thought our strengths were going to be. Could some of the run/pass ratio be driven by lack of production from some new players we thought would do more? It seems we are having a really difficult time getting open.
You could look at it that way, but in the 2nd half, Colorado loaded the box and dared Frost to pass and he didn’t. More than half the 2nd half passes were thrown in the last 3 minutes of the game after Martinez was hurt, most of which came after Nebraska was trailing and needed to throw.

As I said I will try to find the numbers for UCF in 2016. I do know that Milton threw the ball 36 or 37 times in his first significant playing time against Maryland in 2016.
 

CC_Lemming

First Team All-Big Ten
Oct 21, 2001
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I didn’t bring my laptop home from the office so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to set you accurate info.

I just know that each year individually and collectively the numbers were very close to the 53% or 54% run in the 1st half of games.

We can wait all year if you want. However I believe that Frost has altered his play calling the 1st 2 games.
No worries, I wouldn’t be surprised if he has. He may want to transition to a more power run oriented offense for whatever reason (e.g., cultural fit, conference fit, or climate).
 

HuskerHI

Newbie
Sep 16, 2018
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He may want to transition to a more power run oriented offense for whatever reason (e.g., cultural fit, conference fit, or climate).
I don’t ever see that happening. He knows that the zone read is unstoppable if run correctly and he’s never going to change. He’s a stubborn and private guy who does things his way, no matter what the local paper/radio hosts say
 

Solana Beach Husker

Offensive Coordinator
Aug 8, 2008
8,246
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I think 1-8 speaks for itself in terms of talent. We have losses to Minnesota, Northwestern, Colorado, Northern Illinois, Troy..and many blowouts. Bo's recruiting was running on fumes in 2014, and MR couldn't do anything but lie to the kids because every negative recruiter would just say, "shit kid, your coach is 70 and going to retire in 4 years...do you really want to go there?" So MR bet the farm, with no farm to sell and we ended losing a ton of kids to attrition. I don't care enough, but if you looked at our contributors, you have a pretty low star rating. Byond that MR did not have a philosophy in recruiting to bring in a certain "type" of kid. For fricks sake...Devine Ozigbo can barely get out of the backfield, our top wr was covered by a linebacker on a perfect pass, and our most explosive kids are 18 years old. And don't talk about corners...they were beat time and time again by the speed of.....Troy...had to play two deep coverage the entire game, put pressure on our thin lbs and we had no pass rush.
 

z28craz

Blackshirt
Jan 5, 2004
3,065
1,553
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There's talent. What they don't have is depth. There are still several position groups where if you lose a guy or two, you're up the creek. QB is one, OL is another.

Did Barry get dinged on Saturday? Sounds like his absence was noticed when he left the game...

This. Frost even said as much today. Not only do we lack depth, but we also lack some consistency from guys. Lindsey is one that sticks out in my mind. He seems very much like Jamal Turner at this point. Very fast, high expectations, shows flashes of what he might become but just nothing consistent. We have big problems in both depth and consistency on both sides of the ball at every position group. Consistency will come, and could come as early as this year. Depth will require several recruiting cycles.
 
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