Bummer news to wake up to. Prayers to the slain/injured, families, church body, and local residents. Hope they catch the guy before he does more harm or offs himself.
OT: Prayers to those in Charleston
- Thread starter huskerfan830
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anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
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I am ok with him offing himself. Just don't publicize it like crazy, and dig into his past. Clean up the brain matter and move on, society would he better off anyway.
Can't stand those murder suicide types. Let him face justice and think about his next 60+ years incarcerated or entering a death penalty chamber. Let him feel discomfort and pain like his victims.
Normal train of thought and I get it, but it does take resources to do all that. Plus, if there really is a heaven and or hell, the sooner he travels south the better. Pretty sure whatever exists down there is going to be a lot worse than some prison where he'll get plenty of sleep and 3 squares a day.
I'm speechless. I want to post thoughts on how horrible and disgusting this guy is, but can't find words. Probably best for me to stop typing and spend a few minutes sympathizing with the pain and devastation the families are dealing with.
He is a vile human being (assuming he is found guilty) and while we would like to remove these people from the earth, there may be much to be learned from capturing (and keeping) him alive. We need to know if there were others involved. How he obtained the firearms used to murder these innocent people and what signs/clues we can learn to avoid future actions like this.
Potentially we could learn something new...but we should already focus on what we know and actually try and do something about it:
-Dude is filled with racist hate
-Dude had access to firearms
-Dude somehow thought this type of action is a justifiable way to handle one's issues
Oh...we'll try and find someone to blame (parent, teachers, video games, music, upbringing...anything as long as it does't mean a change in society norms and we have something to point the finger at). While some of that might be just, there are much bigger issues at play here.
The first step in honestly trying to do something about tragedy's like this is saying that whatever we're currently doing now isn't working and that it's worth trying something different. Of course different means change and that concept alone really frightens insecure people. Watch, they'll claim things are just fine the way they are...when clearly event after event after event indicate that just simply isn't the case.
-Dude is filled with racist hate
-Dude had access to firearms
-Dude somehow thought this type of action is a justifiable way to handle one's issues
Oh...we'll try and find someone to blame (parent, teachers, video games, music, upbringing...anything as long as it does't mean a change in society norms and we have something to point the finger at). While some of that might be just, there are much bigger issues at play here.
The first step in honestly trying to do something about tragedy's like this is saying that whatever we're currently doing now isn't working and that it's worth trying something different. Of course different means change and that concept alone really frightens insecure people. Watch, they'll claim things are just fine the way they are...when clearly event after event after event indicate that just simply isn't the case.
Just read his Uncle says his Daddy gave the suspect a .45 for his 21st b-day two months ago. Perhaps this how his Dad thought he might use it...perhaps not (admittingly we'll likely never know the answer). Is this really a risk that our society thinks is worth taking??? If that answer is yes than how many more of these events must occur before the answer is no???
terrible situation for sure. Now is the time to give prayers and time for the families and the community to heal. Having visited Charleston a long time ago when I loved down there it is a community that will work through this, just wish they didn't have to, nor any other community.
There is plenty of time for the politics to be played.
There is plenty of time for the politics to be played.
How many more times must something like this happen before we tire of the status quo?
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anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
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This was a tragic, senseless act. So was the fact that many more idiots chose to drink and drive today, and kill people. So are the countless murders, shootings, rapes, etc etc that are going to happen today that ultimately outnumber what happened yesterday. There are plenty of lunatics in this country. Focusing on one facet of tragedies because it is easy, and fits your weak-minded need for something to blame is not going to do a damn thing after the fact. Universal healthcare should catch all these mental cases in advance.... right?
Not really? Even if you know you have a problem, in this country it's far better to just pretend you don't as seeking mental health treatment will show up in a background check and then boom there goes any job chances you ever had.
Well, I don't feel weak minded for seeking a solution to the problem. Characterize me as you like. I do indeed think that stricter gun control will aid in preventing (but certainly not solve) situations like this. I understand and respect the opinion of most on this board that it will not.
Having said that, if removing guns from the situation isn't an option, how do we approach solving this? Do we simply acknowledge that there's nothing we can do? Is that even remotely acceptable?
We teach early on in life to be respectful of life, of others and that disagreements happen. We teach people about proper gun safety and using guns properly.
We stop making every situation in life the next crisis and find solutions to smaller problems as they exist in life.
Self control basically and learn how to have manners for others. Not a catch all but a start
We stop making every situation in life the next crisis and find solutions to smaller problems as they exist in life.
Self control basically and learn how to have manners for others. Not a catch all but a start
This sounds great, but how do we legislate this? You can cover your family, but how do you make sure the family down the street gets the same upbringing?
That's the problem... And I don't know the solution. Not sure any of us does...
You don't legislate morality like this. It is a hearts and minds issue. When you legislate how people are to think and feel you are creating "think like me or you're evil" mindset that is causing so many of the problems we see today. There isn't disagreement there is I'm right you're evil. It has to stop. Start small and grow it out. We didn't get screwed up quickly weren't not going to make big changes overnight.
This was a horrible act, but contrary to conventional wisdom, these things don't happen any more now than they did in the past. As for the whole gun thing, I am not a gun enthusiast, I don't own a gun and don't plan on ever owning a gun, and I was on hand for Omaha's worst shooting event; that said, America isn't violent because of guns, a number of historical and cultural factors give rise to America's energy and dynamism and, unfortunately, its violence. If you were to outlaw guns and confiscate all existing guns (an impossibility) underground gunsmiths would supply criminals with whatever weapons they wanted, gun crime might actually increase under such a legal regime. I understand the desire to fix things by passing a new law, but this is, by and large, magical thinking. Gradual improvements in parenting, changes in social norms and general cultural growth will reduce violence, but even a non-violent culture like Norway isn't immune to things like this. There are no broader lessons to be drawn from this sort of thing.
Timnsun, I don't know either but the effort has to be made. Those that want to spread the anger and division seem to work hard enough at it, we need to do what we can.
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anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
Guest
Bingo. This guys gun didn't break out of its own case. The sick bastard did. I am all for VERY strict gun penalties. One thing I would add is that people need to stop looking for a scape goat. Likely this clown would have found a way to do major damage. This was domestic terrorism. Hang his ass in the town square for all to see.
One of the hardest things for me is saying something to someone else's kids when they are misbehaving. Previous generations didn't have a problem with this AT ALL.
Not saying we should be disciplining other's children in front of them, but if the parents aren't there, do we look the other way? Hate to admit it, but I tend to do that and sometimes think I should have said or done something...
Anybody else feel this way?
Not saying we should be disciplining other's children in front of them, but if the parents aren't there, do we look the other way? Hate to admit it, but I tend to do that and sometimes think I should have said or done something...
Anybody else feel this way?
Nope, this is exactly the time for politics to be addressed. This whole idea of simply waiting until this tragedy is removed from the public consciousness is simply a way to avoid anything from actually being done. The "thoughts and prayers" being sent their way are nice and all but let's be honest--it doesn't do a damn thing to ensure this doesn't happen again or to even make it somewhat less likely that this will happen again. We can keep fooling ourselves into thinking that we've moved beyond the fundamentally racist foundations of America's origin but that wouldn't be true as evidenced by the Confederate flag currently flying above the South Carlina Capitol (oh, but at half mast--how gracious of them). We can keep pretending that some form of gun control wouldn't help but that wouldn't be true either. I'm tired of engaging in these arguments again and again and again.
This post and some others inn this thread imply something needs to be done to ensure this "doesn't happen again". If you have a proposed solution, why don't you offer it? Also, while it is impossible to determine how many murders were committed with legally obtained firearms vice illegally obtained firearms, it is undeniable that many murders are committed by firearms stolen or obtained through some other illegal means. What is your plan to stop those murders? And finally, what should we do about the 44 US homicides per day (of which about 33% don't involve guns)?
Every time some maladjusted punk shoots up a mall or theater or school or church people want to "do something" because these episodes stir our emotions highly. Meanwhile, between these episodes, 44 people get snuffed every day and there is no outrage. My solution is to bring back the electric chairs and fry obvious murderers as quickly as possible after the trial. That way you address the criminal and not his or her tool of choice.
we have a lot mental health issues in this country. a lot. nothings changing anytime soon.
keep your eyes peeled.
keep your eyes peeled.
I don't understand the idea that, because we can't solve ALL issues related to guns, we should therefore do absolutely nothing. That seriously makes no sense. We've been trying it the "do nothing" way forever and it's not working. Get rid of these guns with 30-round magazines. Yes, it's possible the "bad guys" will get ahold of them but it will be much more difficult and expensive if the supply washed-up. If someone is in possession of an illegal gun, then there should be mandatory, harsh prison terms. In addition, anyone who wants a gun should have to go through a similar licensing process to driving a car. These seem like imminently reasonable ideas that would save lots of lives. Again, there would still be crimes committed with guns but I bet there'd be a lot less. Unfortunately our "thoughts and prayers" just aren't getting it done.
Sports, you appear to be a bright guy based on your posts I've read in the past. That said, having to go through a " similar licensing process to driving a car...?" Getting a license to drive isn't that difficult. Good grief, my mom is severely disabled and has horrible vision but at one point was able to get her's renewed. Many illegals get a license without so much as a sniff. Those who can't or won't? Well, they just drive around anyway.
Edit: Fat fingers trying to type on my phone, accidentally hit "post"
Edit: Fat fingers trying to type on my phone, accidentally hit "post"
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-drops-the-comedy-to-talk-charleston-we-still-wont-do-jackshit/
Jon Stewart's take. No jokes. Great stuff.
Jon Stewart's take. No jokes. Great stuff.
As long as the NRA keeps pouring big bucks into politicians pockets, expect nothing of substance to change. We are the only developed country that faces events like this at this rate. No other country is close. But I agree with Sports - we can keep burying our head in the sand by saying "well, crazy people do crazy things!" but that doesn't address anything.
I didn't say wait ril it's out of sight, in said now is not the time. Those killed have not had a funeral and those who lost these loved ones have had no time to mourn.
"Never let a crisis go to waste" mindset isn't leadership it is using people as props for an agenda. There is plenty of time to look and get actual facts and make changes.
1 raise your kids and be around people who value life
2 enforce existing law.
3 point out the hypocrisy of those who only get upset when something happens that fits the narrative of this with an agenda.
NRA board member blames pastor for Charleston deaths
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...charleston-shooting-119202.html#ixzz3dWJtPDyj
This isn't a knee jerk reaction to one incident. Lame rationale (excuses frankly) for not wanting to own up to the fact that we got a real problem in our society with these seemingly perpetual random acts of life taking violence.
BINGO^^^^^^^^
Even if you waived a magic wand and got rid of all the guns in this country, there'd still be guns. There are plenty of people in this country who'd manufacture their own.
There's enough people in this country with the knowledge to produce ammunition.
The bad people in this country would pay whatever it took to get those with the knowedge to make guns and ammo to do it.
Military stockpiles of weapons would be targeted by thieves and supplies would be stolen from within and sold for huge profit.
This country tried to outlaw boose and it was a complete failure. Trying to outlaw guns would be an even bigger failure. Meth is illegal, and we've passed laws to limit pseudo ephedrine sales, which decreased meth labs in this country, but Mexican drug cartels have little trouble getting meth into this country, despite laws against possession, transportation, and distribution of meth.
Don't get me wrong, I own many guns, but I do as a member of law enforcement feel it is too easy to get them, and too difficult to track them. However, pass all the laws you want about guns, criminals don't care.
If the 45 caliber this psycho was given is the murder weapon, was never given to him, he appears deranged enough that he would have done whatever he needed to legally or illegally to get another gun.
Bad guys all over the country who are convicted felons are prohibited from possessing a gun. Great law, but it doesn't stop them. If bad guys have a gun and think they are about to get caught with it, they drop the gun and run. Then they go get another.
You say lock them up and throw away the key. Sorry. Did you see that this weekend Nebraska will release a man involved in 2 murders after 10 years?
This country's history is tied to guns good and bad. It is ingrained in our society. They will not disappear and you can't make them. No amount of laws will keep guns out of the hands of a criminal hell bent on doing wrong.
The day that this country tries to sieze all guns from the citizens, is the day I will no longer want to be in law enforcement. Lots of people will refuse to turn their guns over. There will be Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents all over the country. Law enforcement officers trying to take the guns will be killed in large numbers. Some will be targeted and ambushed just so the gun on their hip can be taken.
Oh, and if that day ever comes, I'm not turning mine over either.
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New AD. You wrote "If the 45 caliber this psycho was given is the murder weapon, was never given to him, he appears deranged enough that he would have done whatever he needed to legally or illegally to get another gun"
That's an assumption not a fact...and as such, is not valid statement (using that type of logic one could justify any type of randomness...while that may be true at times that is unfair blanket statement) . If you think guns are too easy to obtain, then stand behind trying to change that (instead of accepting it). It's very likely that as law enforcemnet you deal with this issue op a day to day basis more than anyone (which is why you are trained to treat all people as if they are armed, even when that isn't the case). You're likely are correct that any change won't be easy or show immediate but it'd still be a start to trying something different. Isn't that worth a taking a chance on?
For the record I have no issue with guns used to hunt or for riflery. There is 0 practicality for large clip auto assualt rifles for the average citizen in our soctiety today. None. I do agree that any modification on gun laws is going to challenging simply b/c today there are more guns than people in this country.
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/19/8807851/mass-shootings-gun-control-charleston
That's an assumption not a fact...and as such, is not valid statement (using that type of logic one could justify any type of randomness...while that may be true at times that is unfair blanket statement) . If you think guns are too easy to obtain, then stand behind trying to change that (instead of accepting it). It's very likely that as law enforcemnet you deal with this issue op a day to day basis more than anyone (which is why you are trained to treat all people as if they are armed, even when that isn't the case). You're likely are correct that any change won't be easy or show immediate but it'd still be a start to trying something different. Isn't that worth a taking a chance on?
For the record I have no issue with guns used to hunt or for riflery. There is 0 practicality for large clip auto assualt rifles for the average citizen in our soctiety today. None. I do agree that any modification on gun laws is going to challenging simply b/c today there are more guns than people in this country.
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/19/8807851/mass-shootings-gun-control-charleston
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