OT: Illegal to work on your own car?

[NikkiSixx]

This is absolutely nuts..

The article states that basically, the automakers want to use the DMCA act to say your car is a 'mobile computing device' to make it illegal to work on your own car...

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html

I guess I can understand them not wanting someone to hack the computer to make the car unsafe, but then later it goes on to say that in essence you don't really own the car, but are paying for the right to use it?

I thought a car title was proof of ownership, and unless the personal property laws have changed, I don't get it.

Is it just me?

 

[otismotis08]

As a practical matter, it's been slowly trending that way over the past several years. As the newer models get more and more high-tech, computer-driven components, the newer vehicles become difficult for the old shade-tree mechanics to work on. I will always have at least one older model vehicle in my possession that I know I can work on effectively with a standard set of tools and good old know-how.

 

[baseball31ne]

We allow what we accept. This is just another example.

 

[red rover 70]

I bought a 2008 Highlander and tried to get a Chilton book so i could work on it. No luck since they don't want you working on your own vehicle. Great gig for certified mechanical shops or the makers service department.

 

[bigboxes]

I own a 2009 Camry. I bought a Chilton's for it and also a OBD code reader and do my own work. If it's too difficult I have a mechanic friend to fall back on. I barter my computer services in return, but I dont like to take advantage of him so I do what I can. As long as it doesn't require welding or tearing aoart the engine i can do it. Head gaskets, struts, rack and pinion steering, brake jobs... I've done it all. Going to replace a faulty ABS pump/module on Tuesday.

 

[tarheelhusker]

This is absolutely nuts..

The article states that basically, the automakers want to use the DMCA act to say your car is a 'mobile computing device' to make it illegal to work on your own car...

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html

I guess I can understand them not wanting someone to hack the computer to make the car unsafe, but then later it goes on to say that in essence you don't really own the car, but are paying for the right to use it?

I thought a car title was proof of ownership, and unless the personal property laws have changed, I don't get it.

Is it just me?

And, if you can get the info to twist wrenches, if you belong to a HOA, they'll come a knockin'!

 

[canaham]

This is absolutely nuts..

The article states that basically, the automakers want to use the DMCA act to say your car is a 'mobile computing device' to make it illegal to work on your own car...

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html

Is it just me?

The author is trying to equate hacking the firmware for dubious performance gains with doing ordinary repair work. He's full of it. You'll still be able to hook up your fave scan tool to diagnose and fix a problem. What you won't be able to do is reverse engineer the ECU and sell modifications to it. Now if someone wants to build an open source ECU from scratch ...

 

[suhnami]

The DMCA needs to be repealed and a new law that strongly affirms fair use and ownership by private citizens needs to be enacted. Companies and lawyers abusing this law and private citizens needs to stop immediately.

 

[bigboxes]

The author is trying to equate hacking the firmware for dubious performance gains with doing ordinary repair work. He's full of it. You'll still be able to hook up your fave scan tool to diagnose and fix a problem. What you won't be able to do is reverse engineer the ECU and sell modifications to it. Now if someone wants to build an open source ECU from scratch ...

Exactly.

The DMCA needs to be repealed and a new law that strongly affirms fair use and ownership by private citizens needs to be enacted. Companies and lawyers abusing this law and private citizens needs to stop immediately.

Couldn't agree more. This is just the latest abuse. No one should get 70 years for copyright. People should be allowed to copy a movie or music for use as backups and for different devices. This is one of those times where big money is unfairly effecting legislation and enforcement.

 

[Diplomat_Dean]

The article is absolute garbage. Automakers are not saying you can't work on your own vehicle, they want to protect against reverse engineering, pirating, hacking or other malicious uses of the onboard electronic/computer systems. It's a lot like Windows or Mac OS, you don't own the operating system, you own the right/license to use that OS. Hacking, reselling, abuse of Windows/Mac OS is protected by law. There is a lot of intellectual property and patents on vehicles electronics and computer systems. Manufactures need a way to protect themselves.

 

[red rover 70]

Then tell me why I can't buy a self mechanic manual to work on my 2008 Highlander? Simple answer... auto makers don't want you working on your own vehicle.

 

[bigboxes]

The article is absolute garbage. Automakers are not saying you can't work on your own vehicle, they want to protect against reverse engineering, pirating, hacking or other malicious uses of the onboard electronic/computer systems. It's a lot like Windows or Mac OS, you don't own the operating system, you own the right/license to use that OS. Hacking, reselling, abuse of Windows/Mac OS is protected by law. There is a lot of intellectual property and patents on vehicles electronics and computer systems. Manufactures need a way to protect themselves.

Sure the article is total clickbait, but it's not totally without merit. Business, including the auto industry, will use existing laws or promote new legislation to do just what the author is suggesting, to make it more difficult for you to do what you want with your property. It's the same with my cell phone. I bought it and own it, but the service providers/makers try to scare you not to alter the way it operates for fear of loss of a revenue stream. I've rooted both my tablet and phone and can modify it how I see fit. In retaliation, service providers/makers threaten not to support your device and void your warranty. It's all about control. The big businesses pay off the politicians to pass legislation that is anti-consumerism. Americans keep on lapping it up believing they are better off because some industry group airs flashy commercials promoting their agenda as "American".

 

[canaham]

Then tell me why I can't buy a self mechanic manual to work on my 2008 Highlander? Simple answer... auto makers don't want you working on your own vehicle.

It can be as simple as there not being enough demand to create a manual (yet).
However, you can spend $15 for 2 days of access to the Toyota tech site and download the FSM for your vehicle. It may not have all the pictures of a Hayne's or Chilton but it is the definitive guide.

 

[jflores]

The big businesses pay off the politicians to pass legislation that is anti-consumerism. Americans keep on lapping it up believing they are better off because some industry group airs flashy commercials promoting their agenda as "American".

Its not just big business, its your fellow citizens. If you are against a business practice, you could be labeled anti-capitalist, or worst, communist.

 

[Dean Pope]

This is absolutely nuts..

I thought a car title was proof of ownership, and unless the personal property laws have changed, I don't get it.

Is it just me?

According to corporate America, and you don't have to like it, you don't really own your car anymore, but rather you've got an "implied license" to operate the vehicle for the life of the car. That's what they are trying to shove past Americans these days. It has to do with the computer software-- it's true on smartphones, cars, you name it. It goes back to how corporations want to interpret an old software copyright law. There could be valid reasons for it, such as safety concerns if someone messes with the software in a vehicle's performance. But I'm not buying it. I think it's pretty crappy if it gets to the point in America that you do not truly own your car, tractor, phone, etc.

 

[bigboxes]

Then tell me why I can't buy a self mechanic manual to work on my 2008 Highlander? Simple answer... auto makers don't want you working on your own vehicle.

I contacted Cengage Learning (the company that owns Chilton's and Haynes Repair/Service manuals) and asked about a Chilton's manual for your vehicle. They don't do a paper manual past 2007. You'd have to go online for that info (a subscription fee; yes, that sucks). I was told to check with Haynes. Haynes has moved to an online business model as well. They do have a manual that covers the Highlander from 1999-2014. Here's the link to order the manual:
Haynes Repair Manual for the Toyota Highlander (2001 thru 2014)

 

[red rover 70]

Thanks boxes! I've got multiple friends with newer Highlanders and 4runners. That's how i got turned on to my Toyota. It runs great but i do love to fix my own stuff within reason. Especially knowing about them hard to reach or incredibly obscure clips holding panels on is good to know. I've asked around about manuals and it's always been a dead end... thanks again!

 

[brnred1989]

Then tell me why I can't buy a self mechanic manual to work on my 2008 Highlander? Simple answer... auto makers don't want you working on your own vehicle.

http://s-repair.chiltondiy.com/2008/Toyota/Highlander/Repair-Manual-Online

http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/308

http://www.slideshare.net/vaeiuotny...-2001-2013-service-repair-manual-pdf-download

several repair manual and I'm with the one guy - I do all my own work except engine tear down, everything else is pretty straight forward.