Nebraska=Massachusetts
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The conventional wisdom says that the majority of Nebraskans support the death penalty but there's no evidence that that's actually the case. Moreover, even those who favor the death penalty just really don't care that much about it.
http://aclunebraska.org/images/attachments/231_Necappu01 Report Memo.pdf
People are rightfully horrified by all the wrongful convictions that are coming to light nationwide (and in Nebraska) and the financial considerations cannot be ignored. It's crazy to me how conservatives are constantly railing about big government and government's inability to do things correctly. Yet, when it comes to the death penalty, that all goes out the window.
http://aclunebraska.org/images/attachments/231_Necappu01 Report Memo.pdf
People are rightfully horrified by all the wrongful convictions that are coming to light nationwide (and in Nebraska) and the financial considerations cannot be ignored. It's crazy to me how conservatives are constantly railing about big government and government's inability to do things correctly. Yet, when it comes to the death penalty, that all goes out the window.
Yes all the innocent men and some women. Really you have too taste blood. There are millions of other evil people not locked up; maybe they can keep you awake. I will say I did like Clints movies and there are times to make my day. If you are blond white women you are about a hundred times less likely to be convicted than many citizens :
You're correct in what you posted, but I sure do notice how China gives the guilty a speedy trial, a ready made grave, a bullet to the head and then bills the family for the bullet !
Singapore runs a tight ship also. Swift death, no appeals. Remember the caning the American spray can graffiti man received ? Even down to improper disposal of chewing gum rates a severe caning. Singapore is a very clean, safe city.
A
anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
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I like to think that America is better than those third world countries in terms of justice and rights of it's citizens, but if you believe that we need to move that way go ahead and preach it.
I agree with you, the USA is the best place in this world.
My beef is the criminal element & the entitlement crowd.
My beef is the criminal element & the entitlement crowd.
The problem is discerning who, exactly, are those amongst the "criminal element." Do you think all of these DNA exonerations just happen out of thin air? They're the end result of the lengthy appellate process death penalty supporters hate.I agree with you, the USA is the best place in this world.
My beef is the criminal element & the entitlement crowd.
Ok, let's go that way, proof positive DNA match for murder, instant firing squad carried out.
That would thin out the guilty, save time, tax money, 3 squares a day, upkeep and free up cell space to house more bad guys.
I want all folks getting benefits drug tested and put to work to earn those entitlements. Plenty of ways to earn their keep.
That would thin out the guilty, save time, tax money, 3 squares a day, upkeep and free up cell space to house more bad guys.
I want all folks getting benefits drug tested and put to work to earn those entitlements. Plenty of ways to earn their keep.
For what it's worth, the Legislature can't put the question of whether to repeal the death penalty to a public vote - changing a statute doesn't work that way. I believe the petition process can be used to hold a public vote on whether the bill in question should take effect, but that can only happen once it has passed. But putting a repeal/don't repeal question on the ballot isn't constitutional.
Nebraska's is shadow of its former self. 20 years ago, the Huskers were the king of football world, we were the only state with the electric chair and we valued moral living. Nowadays, the football team is an afterthought, and the death penalty and the gay marriage ban have been overridden by a handful of spineless legislators/judges to appease a small but vocal group of liberal crybabies. For Shame!!
Its amazing how worked up people get over an issue that effects maybe .05% of the population max. Wish we could have been this passionate when the same people voted for an increase in the gas tax. I mean, THATS a law that effects nearly everyone in the state.
Always disappointing to be reminded that there are still people who think this way out there.
I don't get it either. Put the guy in prison and throw away the key if need be. However, why waste all that money on the death penalty. Plus, in that minuscule amount of cases where a wrongful conviction is had there can be some restitution.
DNA isn't a holy grail. For one, this solution would have negligible effect considering that only a small percentage of cases rely on DNA evidence.
Remember that John Adams stood in front of the mob, when the mob wanted to be an instant firing squad for several British soldiers who had fired on unarmed colonists. That's real leadership on a criminal justice issue, coming from the same side of the aisle you seem to profess to be on today.
There was also a time in this country when we vilified China's system of "justice" not wanted to model ours after it. Again, from the same side of aisle.
I'd say it'd be a pretty hard case to prove that one guy, who is generally reviled among all districts not on Ames avenue, was playing puppet master among 30+ state senators.
George Will, captain conservative, came out against the death penalty. You may as well have put Reagan's name on the paper.
I don't "profess" to be on any aisle. For me, it's right vs wrong. Do wrong pay, the price. I have no political leanings.
In my world, if those Brits fired on unarmed Americans, I would have forcefully removed John Adams & finished the execution of the Brits.
Then I take it you have no issue with the govt more or less, trodding over your rights, because in effect, they can outmuscle you (and any potential Adams who might stand for you) and don't need to follow the niceties that were put down on paper.
Or, in your construct, is there something special about you and your rights, that makes them wholly untouchable, but others can be messed with?
I ask not to be combative, but because I'm genuinely curious.
I'm also curious. He changed his mind in a matter of minutes from fully supportive of the death penalty to only being in favor of it when there is irrefutable DNA evidence. I actually appreciate his willingness to deviate from his original position but I just wish people in general would slow down and put more thought behind things before engaging in these sorts of arguments. As yourself, if I was charged with a capitol offense, how would I want to be treated by the process and that would go a long way.
For a long time, I was kind of pro death penalty by default. I still got no issues killing those evil dudes. But as life moves along and I learn more about the issue, the juice isn't worth the squeeze to me anymore.
There's really not one facet of the situation, that would redeem the death penalty in my eyes. It doesn't deter crime. It costs more than life in prison. If I'm going to kill the bad guys, I have to come to terms with killing a not insignificant number of good guys too.
That's probably the real kicker. I can accept collateral damage, I do in my job everyday. Its unavoidable in war. Executions by the State, however, are avoidable, and I can release whoever is exonerated, and watch whoever is evil rot away over 50 years.
The only thing the State gets out of it, is some portion of the populace gets satisfaction for the bloodlust, but then you have all the aformentioned negatives. Just doesn't come out to balance, in my opinion. Not when these dudes will never see the light of day again.
There's really not one facet of the situation, that would redeem the death penalty in my eyes. It doesn't deter crime. It costs more than life in prison. If I'm going to kill the bad guys, I have to come to terms with killing a not insignificant number of good guys too.
That's probably the real kicker. I can accept collateral damage, I do in my job everyday. Its unavoidable in war. Executions by the State, however, are avoidable, and I can release whoever is exonerated, and watch whoever is evil rot away over 50 years.
The only thing the State gets out of it, is some portion of the populace gets satisfaction for the bloodlust, but then you have all the aformentioned negatives. Just doesn't come out to balance, in my opinion. Not when these dudes will never see the light of day again.
No offense taken. The country the founding fathers envisioned has been long gone. The U.S. Gov. Is the largest criminal enterprise on the planet. Again, still the finest place to live, but the will of the people has and always will be controlled by corrupt politicians.
There is nothing "special about me or my rights that make them wholly untouchable but others can be messed with?" My life & beliefs follow a very simple creed. To borrow a line from J.B. Books in "The Shootist,"
“I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”
The threat of prison and jail doesn't deter people from committing other crimes either.
The mere threat of a prosecutor seeking the death penalty has caused numerous defendants to plea guilty to avoid it. Thus saving victims families from having to to endure the pain of a trial. Now that tool has been taken away from prosecutors. Why? For a political statement?
There was zero reason to repeal this law. The rumors of political paybacks in the future if true are very concerning to me.
As I told my state senator, who didnt have the guts to reply, the arguments about the increased costs are fuzzy math.
After 9-11 the national security network was accused of "failure of imagination." IMO our legislature is guilty of the same thing.
Mr Chambers of Bellevue......error North Omaha can enjoy his short lived victory, as I'm sure the voters will have the opportunity to weight in on this, as we should have.
That's kinda funny considering that in the Adams scenario, no one laid a hand on you, and you seem pretty pro-laying hands on them in response.
We can move the circle of justice out from just yourself, and say, you are there to correct a wrong done to others, but there are those charged with that reponsibility. And in the case of Adams, we're not talking in the heat of the moment, battle, but suspects already in custody by the proper authorities.
How does one reconcile vigilante justice, or "doing right by me", with the law?
The Supreme Court considers death a different standard than a traditional case, as it should. The idea that prison doesn't deter criminals, doesn't matter a whole lot. Criminals must be punished. But criminals don't have to be killed. In allowing the State to take that extra step, one would logically assume that you get something for it. Deterrence bandied about for years, as a major benefit, which has not materialized, so it doesn't beg the step be taken from societal separation to death. Especially when you have a not insignificant chance of killing an innocent.
Referencing plea bargains.
"The dubiousness of any savings from this practice is underscored by a federal
death penalty cost study. The Judicial Conference of United States concluded that the
average cost of representation in federal death penalty cases that resulted in plea bargains
was $192,333. The average cost of representation in cases that were eligible for the death penalty but in which the death penalty was not sought was only $55,772. This indicates that seeking the death penalty raises costs, even when the case results in a plea bargain. It would be far cheaper to pursue murder cases if the death penalty were never on the table, even taking some non-capital cases to trial, than to threaten the use of the death penalty to induce a plea bargain because the legal costs of preparing for a death penalty case far exceed the costs of a non-death penalty trial."
"Moreover, data from some states refute the notion that the death
penalty increases the incentive to plea bargain. Prosecutors in New Jersey said that abolition of
the death penalty there in 2007 has made no difference in their ability to secure guilty
pleas.
In Alaska, where plea bargaining was abolished in 1975, a st
udy by the National Institute of Justice found that since the end of plea bargaining, “guilty pleas continued to flow in at nearly undiminished rates. Most defendants pled guilty even when the
state offered them nothing in exchange for their cooperation.”
In addition, the practice of charging the death penalty for the purpose of
obtaining plea bargains is an unethical and unconstitutional interference with a
defendant's Sixth Amendment right to trial. It risks convicting innocent defendants who
plead guilty solely to avoid the possibility of a death sentence
— which has occurred on numerous occasions, including in Nebraska."
Non-partisan testimony to the Judiciary Committee
Where did I say anything about a plea bargain? I said the defendant pleas guilty. There is nothing preventing a defendant and his attorney offering to plea guilty, and that happens.
There are reports the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting suspect James Holmes wants to plea guilty to avoid the death penalty, but the prosecutors are going forward. Ariel Castro is Ohio also plead guilty to avoid the death penalty.
I don't care about other states studies, there was still no reason to take it off the books in this state other than to make a political statement.
With the death of Ryan this week, Nebraska has 10 on death row. A whole whopping 10.
You do realize that here in Nebraska the former head of the Douglas County crime lab was convicted of planting blood evidence in a murder case. This would have been "proof positive DNA match for murder" had it not been found out and the scenario you advocate been the system in place two innocent men would be rotting in the ground. There will always be prosecutors who are willing to cut corners or break laws to get convictions because they are certain that the defendant is guilty.
The death penalty had to go. It opens the door for too much abuse. The Beatrice Six travesty might not have played out the way it did if the threat of the death penalty wasn't there to scare six innocent people into confessing to crimes they didn't commit. There are plenty of other, and frankly better, arguments against the death penalty, but these conversations tend to devolve into cesspools, so that's all I'll say here.
Unfortunately this state fiddle farted around on too many issues preventing it from being handled correctly.
Going the wrong way, folks, soon you won't be allowed to farm because corn makes whiskey Cool
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ure-overrides-veto-repeals-death-penalty.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ure-overrides-veto-repeals-death-penalty.html
What you said was "Now that tool has been taken away from prosecutors."
A guy looking for good graces from the court and entering a guilty plea at the advice of his defense attorney, that's not a tool of the prosecution. That's pretty much good luck on their part or desparate behavior out of a guy who knows its an open and shut case for the prosecution. Prosecutors waving around death penalty threats or plea bargain offers, are tools of the prosecution.
You coming to me and saying, hey man, I know you are about to make me look real dumb on tv, so here's $100k to get it over with back channel and let me take my lumps, isn't really a tool I'm equipped with, but I'd surely like to know where to get one
I think watching Texas has been instructional. Texas kills more people than anyone, because they largely have taken a conservative slant in the appeals process. They fast track dudes to die. They take power out of the hands of the governor. And they kill alot of people. But the process is still so inefficient, they kill half or a little less than, still. And it still costs them more money per death penalty case, than the normal deal.
And that's being admonished for cutting corners, and the regular detriment argument about innocents and what not. Its hard to see long term how the death penalty is made accurate enough and cheap enough to keep, even though its now far in the minority across the country.
And that's being admonished for cutting corners, and the regular detriment argument about innocents and what not. Its hard to see long term how the death penalty is made accurate enough and cheap enough to keep, even though its now far in the minority across the country.
A prosecutor with a sure thing should not plea down charges IMO.What you said was "Now that tool has been taken away from prosecutors."
A guy looking for good graces from the court and entering a guilty plea at the advice of his defense attorney, that's not a tool of the prosecution. That's pretty much good luck on their part or desparate behavior out of a guy who knows its an open and shut case for the prosecution. Prosecutors waving around death penalty threats or plea bargain offers, are tools of the prosecution.
You coming to me and saying, hey man, I know you are about to make me look real dumb on tv, so here's $100k to get it over with back channel and let me take my lumps, isn't really a tool I'm equipped with, but I'd surely like to know where to get one
But that would be my point. In an open and shut case, the prosecution probably isn't going to plea down charges, he's got it in the bag. But the defense can basically make a mercy play, by rolling over, and cutting the prosecutor out of the loop entirely and hoping for the mercy of the court for their compliance. That's not a prosecutorial tool.
I would say very few innocent folks have been put to death out of the millions who deserve it
